"Stop saying that."
These are the titular words. No profanity lies in any individual word, no deep offensive tone, no words amongst them means something vile. Together, though, they are the worst words, the most vile, hurtful words that can be said.
"Stop saying that."
I feel dirty writing them. The word "fuck" has been considered a terrible word for a long time, but it has no comparison with this phrase. Censorship is the worst sin commitable. Censorship against anyone, be they Atheist or Theist, be they Right or Left, censorship doesn’t just offend, it kills.
It kills culture, culture lives on controversy. Sociologists may disagree, but consider — how is our culture defined? Is it defined in peacetime? Are our collective mores and values defined when things are simple and straightforward, when the peaceful leader leads and the lion lay with the lamb? Absolutely not, it is defined by Depressions and Wars and Recessions and Death and Controversy.
I recently heard about a Facebook group with the (perhaps in the grand scheme, unfortunate) name "FUCK JESUS CHRIST". I heard that many thousands of people wanted to shut it down, for being offensive to they’re christian natures.
"Stop saying that."
Nothing offends me more than someone telling me to stop speaking. Freedom of speech is freedom entire. Not just freedom from censorship by the government, or from private entity, but censorship from anyone.
No one should be able to force me to "Stop saying that."
"But the majority wants it."
Bullshit, the majority of this country wanted to prevent the civil rights of black people in the 60s, they were wrong. They wanted the Panthers and King and all of those who wanted fairness and equal rights to "Stop saying that." Their words made them uncomfortable, their words made them squirm at the thought that a Black man might be treated like a White one.
Who’s ideas are disgusting now?
Yes, the name of the group is grossly offensive. No, I don’t agree with every single thing the group stands for. Yes, I could choose to keep silent in this solitary time which calls for screaming. But I will not, I can not, it is against the nature instilled into me by my raising. I was taught to believe that all words were sacred, even the damning ones, even the ugly ones.
Yes, Mom, you don’t like this group. But you cannot stand for censoring it. You cannot because it is wrong.
There are many groups which advocate the notion that Atheists are not true americans, that Homosexuals are "less than" and that we are all, collectively, going to suffer and die for all eternity in the hands of a malevolent, vengeful demiurge. These words are deeply offensive to me.
There are many groups which say I should not be afforded rights, that I am an agent of all that is evil, that I am not fit to be a parent, or to be a human being.
These words offend me.
Yet, still I stand here, silent. I will not tell them to stop, no! I will tell them to sing those words louder. Shout those offensive syllables everywhere, and I will shout mine. "FUCK JESUS CHRIST!"
"FUCK ATHEISTS"
"FUCK EVERYONE"
But I will never tell anyone
"Stop saying that."
For once I agree with you, I can see where you are coming from, but I have one question; gossip, lying, and bearing false witness, what do you feel about these subjects, and should they be protected? The reason I agree is for many reasons one is book censorship (I am a heavy reader an feel I have the right to choose for myself what is a good book), also because of all the times these rights have been taken away or ignored, even the LDS church has suffered from this in their early day, and even now to a lesser extent.
Comment by Thomaslee — December 16, 2009 @ 3:24 pm
Any speech should be allowed. The KKK should be allowed to say whatever they want, the Neonazis should be allowed to say whatever they want. No matter how vile or evil or false it is. No matter if its gossip or news, lies or truth. Society can “censor” speech by making it social suicide to say certain things, that is the only kind of censorship I support. So, for instance, at the moment, saying “I’m an atheist” can, in some areas, make you a bit of a pariah, that’s _completely_ okay, it’s on _me_ and other atheists to show that we’re not babyeaters or whatever else is thrown at us. Just like it’s on the religious to prove to the rest of us they aren’t all nutters.
I can understand the notion of libel/slander laws, and even the notion of “You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater”-type rules, I don’t particularly think their necessary — since we all know yelling “fire” will make us a social outcast, whats the point in outlawing it?
In some sense, it’s the same as controlled substance laws, if I’m dumb enough to want to kill my brain with heroin or alcohol, I ought to be allowed to. Similarly, I can understand why people want to outlaw things like Heroin — an effort to protect others from the harmfulness. But that can be _far_ more effectively solved by making someone socially outcast for partaking in those drugs.
In this case, I think that the responses I got from my family are _exactly_ the responses I should have gotten, society does not support a group like “FJC”, they should be allowed to express outrage, but they should not be allowed to shut down the group. Similarly, if the LDS church suddenly supported the deportation of atheists (this is _obviously_ hypothetical), then I should be allowed to express outrage, and vote for candidates who don’t support this view, but I shouldn’t — and “I” here means the atheist/secular community — be allowed to shut down the LDS church!
Hopefully that makes sense.
Comment by jfredett — December 16, 2009 @ 4:00 pm
But I personally will not tolerate lying, or people “making stuff up” so to speak, just to make someone look bad. Honesty, honor, and virtue are dying in this day and age, and I hate it. I believe in the rights this country founded, but people are abusing this right, as an example criminals walk out with barely a scratch, and innocent men and women can spend their whole live in jail for something they never did. And how can things like this happen, because of gossip, lying, and bearing false witness and law upholds this to a large extent, words (lies) can and do hurt, I believe in the freedom to choice, but consequences should follow for each choice we make.
Comment by Thomaslee — December 16, 2009 @ 7:40 pm
I agree- lying should not be tolerated, but it also shouldn’t be illegal. As a society, we should “outlaw” lying and other unethical behavior should force a known liar into social exile. The notion of perjury — as I understand it — is that the witness swears an oath to tell the truth, and if they don’t, they accept that they will be tried for perjury. That’s how it should be. It shouldn’t be illegal to lie, when one makes a contract to tell the truth, then breaking that contract should have a penalty. Furthermore, innocent men and women being sentenced and guilty people going free doesn’t just happen because of lying, sometimes it’s simple mistakes, overzealousness, misinterpretation of the law or evidence, or even juries nullifying a “correct” decision because the law itself is wrong.
In short, I completely agree with you, and I think that the way to get there is more freedom of speech. I don’t know if you are opposed to the latter notion, but I think you’re for that too. I think that the potential misconception is that this total freedom of speech might mean that one has the freedom to break contracts — verbal, legal, or otherwise — this is not the case, rather, if one makes a legal promise to do something, no amount of freedom of speech can get them out of it. The real idea is that there should be no ability to legally stop someone who has made no such contract from saying whatever they like, even things which are gross, or vile, or false. Rather, society should be able to stop them via social (again, not legal) sanctions.
Comment by jfredett — December 16, 2009 @ 8:55 pm
“innocent men and women being sentenced and guilty people going free doesn’t just happen because of lying”
I was using it as an example.
“don’t know if you are opposed to the latter notion” I’m not, freedom of speech, religion exc. I am completely for it(I need to, example I don’t want book censorship).
Comment by Thomaslee — December 16, 2009 @ 9:06 pm